Talk:Explosion Release
Deidara If Deidara called his Exploding Clay "Explosion Release", then shouldn't we accept his word for it until later explained? Yatanogarasu 08:10, December 26, 2010 (UTC) :Piling on to what the IP said below, it certainly seems to be Kishimoto's intent to fiddle with how Deidara's techniques work. Deidara uses this, and the mechanics may or may not be worked out later. ''~SnapperT '' 10:15, December 26, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm not very fond of retcons. Let's see how this goes. Omnibender - Talk - 15:00, December 26, 2010 (UTC) :::There may be a translation difference, but how does this indicate that Driedara has this jutsu too? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 20:49, December 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::I believe the raw said "Bakuton", just like in chapter 522. Mangastream's translator is a good translation, but he does spices things up sometimes. I remember someone saying that. Omnibender - Talk - 20:59, December 26, 2010 (UTC) I was wondering about Deidara's usage.I'm assuming that Deidara's exploding clay is a combination of different techniques...His chakra is probably what actually causes the explosions while the clay is just the medium. But this is all speculation...not even sure why i typed this now =\--Cerez365 (talk) 22:10, December 26, 2010 (UTC) @Omnibender: Well, it may not be that big of a change to Deidara's Exploding Clay. Although I would agree with you, I have been thinking of how this would work ever since Deidara stated he had it. It seems that the "explosive chakra" mentioned in the databook entry for CO is Bakuton chakra, and Gari and Deidara do use the same kanji, "爆." It seems that this nature works by flowing the chakra into objects (such as clay or humans, as Deidara and Gari did, respectively) to make them explode. I posted my idea for Explosion Release on ShounenSuki's talk page, where I theorized that Deidara was using the Iwagakure Kinjutsu to "knead" Bakuton chakra into the clay, and other users who did not have access to the kinjutsu would rather have to do what Gari did and directly flow their chakra into their targets. I'm thinking Deidara "completed his art" by combining his clay sculptures with the explosions, completing his "Art is an explosion!" dream. --GoDai (talk) 01:31, December 27, 2010 (UTC) :Sooo, should we add Deidara as a user of this kekkei genkai or what?--'Wild Wind of the Leaf Since things are very unclear as they are, I don't think he should be listed as having it. We already had an explanation for his jutsu, so until that gets complemented by exposition in the manga, or a databook in the future, we shouldn't try to guess how it works. Omnibender - Talk - 03:43, December 27, 2010 (UTC) :I think this discussion has become far too plagued with the ideal of attempting to acertain how the Exploding Clay justu works, rather than confronting the original issue of whether Deidara's assertions are enough to confirm his possession of this nature, especially in the light of the recent confirmation of the existence of such a nature. '''Leaving aside his Exploding Clay until that gets complemented by further exposition' as Omnibender states, Deidara makes a clear claim about an existing advanced nature that has yet to be refuted, so does this alone warrant his inclusion here? Blackstar1 (talk) 16:12, December 27, 2010 (UTC) How does Deidara have explosion release, he needs his special clay to use his jutsu. As opposed to Gari who needs nothing but can naturally create explosions.--Zicoihno (talk) 01:01, December 31, 2010 (UTC) Deidara uses the kinjutsu he stole to knead chakra into the clay, and that chakra makes the clay explode. Omnibender - Talk - 01:04, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ya know wut i think? Deidara claimed to have bakuton and this wiki is refusing to list him as such because his clay techniques were explained in the manga, anime and databook. But that's just it. The data book gave us info that Deidara can knead his chakra into substances; that's whay his kinjutsu entails. What if we haev this mixed up. It is quite possible that deidara mixes his bakuton chakra into an earth substance. Clay is clearly a representation of earth justu, but that's it, when have u seen any other earth justu explode? I believe it is with the addition of bakuton chakra that allows the clay to explode, without this chakra, his clay sculptured would be just plain old (non-explosive) earth-style clay justu. Im basing this off knowing that no other earth justu that has come before explodes like Deidara does. I agree with the guy/girl above, we should take his word for it until further explained, kishimoto wouldn't have mentioned it for a blank reason and what's more he re-introduced it again in the latest chapter with Gari. Even if you claim this is all speculation, which im not denying it is (because all we can do right now is speculate),at least we should acknowledge that Deidara has the bakuton bloodline limit. (talk) 09:01, December 26, 2010 (UTC) That would be plausible. The only Release Earth can combo with now is Lightning, which to me, would probably more Magnetic/Metal related, but Fire + Lightning as Omnibender said, is more likely then above as both substances can cause explosions. --S.C. Amigo (talk) 17:05, December 26, 2010 (UTC) I think most people assume explosion is earth + lightning is because Deidara and Gari are from the stone village, and that some people believe that blaze is fire + lightning due to the combination of Amaterasu being a fire release tech. and Yamato's explanation of ""this" element in my right hand and "that" element in my left" Amaterasu (fire, left eye) lightning + shape manipulation or something (right eye) since it was already confirmed that it's possible to put chakra into specific parts of your body (Tsunade against Pain).--Red-kun (talk) 17:26, December 26, 2010 (UTC) If I may state another theory here. Fire is the element we most associate with explosions, and we know that Wind element makes Fire bigger and stronger. so is a Fire and Wind combination used to create Explosion element? and is Deidara's Clay techniques a kinjutsu created from the DNA of people with this power and channelled through Clay? I would say it is a least a possibility, any thoughts?SandS Hero (talk) 21:24, December 27, 2010 (UTC) Earth Is Deidara the only reason we're saying this might involve Earth Release? Because him and his clay apart, Explosion could just as easily be Lightning and Fire. I think we should remove the earth mentions to this nature. Omnibender - Talk - 16:37, December 26, 2010 (UTC) :Deidara is indeed the only reason I believe. I say remove it.--'TheUltimate3' ~The User King ~ 17:54, December 26, 2010 (UTC) It can also be a combo of Earth and Lightning, or Earth and Fire but a diffrent form then Lava Release. Or a Kekkei Touta with Earth, Fire and Lightning. if you look for now that we know that only Iwagakure has a Kekkei Touta and that Deidara and that other guy comes from Iwagakure???? :It doesn't do well to reply to month old discussions without adding something to it. Omnibender - Talk - 03:23, April 2, 2011 (UTC) Ummm...Omnibender, what du you mean by 'without adding something'????? (not meant bad, i always want to hear my mistakes). Btw how you sign these edits???? :You sign them with four "~", like this: ~~~~. Yatanogarasu 19:56, April 12, 2011 (UTC) Everything you stated was already pointed out. You merely restated things which were already stated, and speculated on something with no real base. Omnibender - Talk - 23:05, April 12, 2011 (UTC) science stuff Could this Explosion Release be a combination of Earth Release and Lightning Release in an effort to convert stored potential energy into kinetic energy?... fourLOKOz (talk) 21:23, December 26, 2010 (UTC) :I agree. Just imagine a thunder hitting a ground. geohound (talk) 14:46, December 28, 2010 (UTC) Regardless of what you think it's still speculation and this isn't a forum so it's really pointless to continue this topic.--Cerez365 (talk) 14:49, December 28, 2010 (UTC) Consider The Following Deidara isn't an Explosion Release user because: *He uses the kenjutsu he stole to create the explosions. *None of the databooks listed him us such. *He never said he was one he said 'which is truly art my explosion or your dust' which got some damn spoiler messed up such as in the case that said Akatsuchi use a clay clone and it was truly a stone clone. *And finally member from th same clans have very similar characteristis which Deidara doesn't show to have with Gari. Also I heard that the Explosion Release was the combination of fire and lightning. First fire and lightning makes Blaze Release and the combination of two elements can create only one new one. I also heard that it could be earth and lightning which is quite possible due to the fact that when lightning hits the earth an explosion occurs. Now I also thought of something similar to this that crystalization occurs when excessive energy is gathered on earth meanin that lightning being a plasma conducts energy making it possible that lightning and earth make crystal release.Now I also heard something like Wind and lightning, First it may be plausible because lightning creates sonic booms which are quite similar to explosion when it goes throught air but i thing lightning and wind would make something like magnetic release like the one used by the 3rd Kazekage. So my guess is that Explosion Release= Lightning + Earth and that crystal release is earth plus ying and yang :No, actually: :*The Iwagakure kinjutsu allows you to knead chakra into materials. That's all it does. No explosions ever mentioned. We assume the explosive chakra combined with the kneading into clay made Exploding Clay. :*Databooks once listed some Wood Release techniques as Hiden instead of kekkei genkai. Mistakes are always possible. Also, Explosion Release wasn't even introduced then, which means Kishi probably didn't want to spoil it. :*The original Japanese raw uses the terms 塵遁 compared to 爆遁. It's got nothing to do with the clones there. Deidara actually said Explosion Release. :*The clan thing has yet to be explained. :No one knows if Blaze is Fire+Lightning yet. This is all just ideas. Also, we still don't know for sure if simultaneous nature transformations are only available as one per pair. However, we can't list the component natures beause it would be speculation and would be unconfirmed. Finally, Crystal was anime-only, and probably isn't real as it wasn't desgined by Kishimoto. --GoDai (talk) 05:21, December 27, 2010 (UTC) I can squash that clan theory easily look; at Harishama and Tobimara they are brothers yet one has tan skin and black hair (Harishama) and Tobimara has pale skin with white hair. So its quite possible for Deidera and Gari to be related in some way. --DragonStyleNaruto Well: * The Iwagakure kinjutsu is the reason for explosion cause if you're saying that whats the difference of Chakra Flow if Didara had the Explosion he could simply use chakra flow like Sasuke did with the shriken and Naruto with the Kunai. *Spoil What? if Deidara had Explosion Release he would list it as explosion release but last time i checked it said Earth Release for Diedara's jutsu but if it was Explosion Release I don't see why it would get canceled while using lightning thing of it all other Elements using Earth don't seem weak to lightning Lava,Wood,Crystal,Dust. * Blaze you might be right due to the fact that Sasuke as an Uchiha can copy and use all five elements but Amataresu= Fire Release so one component is Fire then Wind No way,Wate No way,Earth No way, so whats left lightning and ying or yang. Yes but the Senju Clan isn't a kekei genkei clan so their are no similarities but Uchiha,Hyuga,Akimichi,Inazuka and many others sharing jutsus are really similar. The senju clan deffinetly is a kekei genkai clan it has the wood release as a kekke genkai and the Akimichi and Inuzaka arent considered a kekkei genkai because they are considered HIDDEN a kekkei genkai is genetic while hidden is just secretive so the body expansion the fang passing fang and the shadow manipulation is not genetic thus its not a kekkei genkai. your not making any sense Deidera may very well have that kekkei genka the point is we wont know till further chapter emphasize on the Blast Corps which Deidera could very well be a part of but we dnt know... and again the Kinjustsu states that the user could use their chakra to create substance it never said that it made the chakra go boom boom i dnt understan why you have to complain bitch and moan on something that you have to wait and see --DragonStyleNaruto None of the Inuzuka clan jutsu are hiden, all of them have ranks. Only some of Akimichi expansion jutsu are hiden. Omnibender - Talk - 22:42, December 27, 2010 (UTC) Suigetsu water arm is hdden and it also has a rank... sooo --DragonStyleNaruto - Talk - 17:58, December 27,2010 (EST) And that is the only hiden jutsu ever to get a rank in a databook, something which caused some confusion when it first came out. If you check previous databooks, you'll see that none of the jutsu used by the Inuzuka clan are marked as hiden, and only the Multi-Size Technique and its direct variations (Partial Multi-Size and Super Multi-Size) are marked as hiden. Omnibender - Talk - 23:04, December 27, 2010 (UTC) Your right well i guess you could say that the inuzaka clan use specialized justus lol --DragonStyleNaruto - Talk - 17:43, December 27,2010 (EST) When I used the Inuzuka and Akimichi as an example I was saying that people from similar clans have similar characteristis and jutsus, and Tobirame and Tsunade can't use wood proving that Wood Release is a one man Jutsu like the 3rd Kazekage's jutsu. Now Deidara is my fave character and I would loved if he had explosion release but if he could do the Explosion without clay why would he care of running out? and don't say bullcrap like ohh its because of art cause its not even when he got resserected and was sealed in the puppet why did't he just blow it up probably because he could't.And another thing is that Deidara hates kekkei genkai users not only the Sharingan ones but all them read at his page at the trivia section. Also if his clay was an Explosion Release why did it get canceled by lighhtning release techniques.And don't say they were getting canceled because it has Earth Release as one of its nature cause Lava,Wood,Dust and Crystal did't get canceled even if they had Eart as one of their natures. Please sign your posts. Now that you mention it, I don't remember saying he despised kekkei genkai in general. I do remember saying he hated the Sharingan, because Itachi defeated him with it, and for a moment Deidara was awed by it, and the Sharigan looked down on his art, and it wasn't artistic and what not. Do you have a source for Deidara hating kekkei genkai in general? I'll bring this up at his talk page. Omnibender - Talk - 00:41, December 28, 2010 (UTC) Guys forget what I said so far I went back and saw the Raw Spoiler of 514 and it did say Explosion Release and I think the mangastream directers just gave it their own glance. Deidara Explosion Release & Element Why would we not include Deidara with the explosion release really people? He stated very clearly as having it, we know it is a bloodline limit possessed by Gari as well. Not all people from the same clan look exactly alike. If exploding clay is not explosion release, we know that it is then just earth element. If exploding clay is explosion release, then it means explosion release is made up of earth element and something else. But regardless Deidara has it. Dragon Hacker (talk) 06:28, December 27, 2010 (UTC) :This possible retcon has yet to be properly explained, as mentioned above. Omnibender - Talk - 15:23, December 27, 2010 (UTC) I have't seen the chapter in a while, but where exactly in 514 does he say he has Explosion Release? Fmakck - Talk - ::When he says something like "let's see what's better, my Exploding Clay or your Dust Release". It seems that in the raw, he used the term Explosion Release, and mangastream's translator just adapted it. Omnibender - Talk - 03:28, December 29, 2010 (UTC) Thanks for the help, but I still don't see it. I guess you can't trust the translations.Fmakck - Talk - 04:21, December 29, 2010 (UTC) :Look for spoilers before the chapter is available, they're not perfect, but sometimes they have information that gets removed, like this. You just have to have a critical sense. In the same spoiler, there was a mention to Clay Release and Explosion Release, so obviously it wasn't 100% correct. Omnibender - Talk - 04:29, December 29, 2010 (UTC) Logical Combinations Going by given facts... Ice = Water / Wind. Wood = Water / Earth. Boil = Water / Fire. Storm = Water / Lightning. Lava = Fire / Earth. Blaze = ?. Dust = ?. Explosion = ?. Scorch = ?. ? = ?. Given the fact that Blaze is posessed by someone with known fire/lightning affinity, it would be the most logical conclusion for its' combination. Dust is by someone known to have Earth affinity who can also fly, leading to the presumption that it is logically Earth/Wind. Taking these into account, the above list can be done as. Ice = Water / Wind. Wood = Water / Earth. Boil = Water / Fire. Storm = Water / Lightning. Lava = Fire / Earth. Blaze = Fire / Lightning. Dust = Earth / Wind. Explosion = ?. Scorch = ?. ? = ?. This leaves one open spot for fire, one for earth, two for lightning, and two for wind. If you put fire into the Scorch element, which very clearly relates to heat, then the other half would have to be wind, since fire/earth is lava and fire/lightning (per above paragraph) is blaze. this leaves the combinations of earth/lightning and lightning/wind as possible combinations for Explosion and an unidentified one. taking into account what someone said as to if you course energy into a solid, i think explosion would likely be lightning/earth. this leaves lightning/wind as a currently unidentified advanced nature. these logical discussions leading the list to... Ice = Water / Wind. Wood = Water / Earth. Boil = Water / Fire. Storm = Water / Lightning. Lava = Fire / Earth. Blaze = Fire / Lightning. Dust = Earth / Wind. Explosion = Earth / Lightning. Scorch = Fire / Wind. ? = Wind / Lightning. SkyFlicker (talk) 05:00, December 31, 2010 (UTC) Yeah this is kinda what every logical person hs in their minds at the moment. However, there are a some other ideas going around to consider, such as maybe one chakra nature pair having more than one result (Some think maybe both Lava and Explosion are Earth+Fire), or Yin/Yang being able to be combined into the nature (Blaze could be Fire+Yin if that's true). Although these may not be much confirmed yet (I don't want to believe them either), they could very well be true. --GoDai (talk) 07:40, December 31, 2010 (UTC) Here's a thought: the Third Kazekage's magnetism is lightning and wind. Lightning provides electrical waves, and the wind provides the electrical waves to travel through the air, creating magnetism. Yatanogarasu 08:01, December 31, 2010 (UTC) @ Godai: the difference is, my first comment is based upon already canon material, and is logically sound given the canon facts. having different advanced nature both being composed of the same basic natures, or having a basic elemental nature and yin/yang combining to form an advanced nature type, is something that has no current canon logic to it. the list above is very very very very very likely. @ Yatanogarasu: Very possible, considering that Amatseru and Exploding Clay have both been ret-con'd of sorts.SkyFlicker (talk) 08:23, December 31, 2010 (UTC) Yeah you're right, I just thought I'd make sure you were aware of these things others strongly believe in. The only possible problem is the 熔/溶 issue that occurs in Lava. I know a little Japanese myself and saw the possibilities of this problem. I discussed them with ShounenSuki, who is much more better than me in Japanese, and even he stated this could mean the two are different. You see, "Lava" can be written in two ways: 熔岩 and 溶岩. Both 熔 and 溶 mean "Melt" (岩 means rock). They hardly have any difference to most people. Kishimoto never uses the term 熔岩 and always uses 溶岩. However, he writes Lava Release (熔遁/溶遁) differently depending on who's using it: 熔 for Rōshi and Kurotsuchi (Iwa-nin) and 溶 for Mei (Kiri-nin). As far as I know, 熔 is related to melting by heat, and 溶 is related to dissolution (However, language does not always follow this). According to ShounenSuki, if there had to be a difference, 熔 is related to solids and 溶 to liquids (Which makes sense, as 熔 is for Earth/Rock, and 溶 is for Water/Mist). The overall question is, "Why would Kishimoto use different kanji in the first place, if he meant Lava for both?" This question leaves people with different ideas. One idea I have is that 熔 is Lava, but 溶 is something else. *Mei's only named 溶遁 technique, Yōton: Yōkai no Jutsu, is a pun on the term "dissolution (溶解; Yōkai)," which implies it's more related to a viscous solvent than lava. Therefore, I theorize 溶遁 isn't Lava, but rather Dissolution. However, trust me, I don't like where that went. Mei only has 3 natures and 2 kekkei genkai, meaning that this theorized "Dissolution Release" has to be either Earth+Fire, Earth+Water, or Fire+Water, which are all taken. If this theory is true, we face serious problems. However, we don't know about the kanji difference throughly yet, so we'll leave Kishi to explain that later. I just wanted to let you guys know about this. I believe ShounenSuki is already aware of this and has his own good ideas, and you can ask him separately for that. --GoDai (talk) 04:12, January 1, 2011 (UTC) are you sure? Are you sure that Deidara have got this kekkei genkai?? i know that he's got kekkei genkai, but this... he's got mouth on hands and gari, whitch have got the same kekkei genkai, doesn't have got more than one mouth. (i think) :The mouths are caused by the Iwagakure Kinjutsu. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 19:59, January 5, 2011 (UTC) ::So i guess that's a yes we're sure. He's said so himself after all...--Cerez365 (talk) 20:01, January 5, 2011 (UTC) :::Thanks! And when he told it by himself? [[Użytkownik:Minitsunade|'Minitsunade']] [[Dyskusja_użytkownika:Minitsunade|(Dyskusja)]] 20:16, January 5, 2011 (UTC) ::yes, in chapter 514 page 13 --Cerez365 (talk) 20:25, January 5, 2011 (UTC) ::hmmm. you're right! i saw in in polish version and there were only "your dust or my boombs". and in one of english version is bakuton :) So... So...can say that Clay is the Exploding Explosion Release? :Not really. Exploding Clay comes from the Explosion Release, but isn't the same thing. Deidara uses the Iwagakure Kinjutsu to add his Explosion Release chakra into his clay to turn it into a bomb. The clay is Earth Release, the exploding chakra is Explosion Release, and the kneading is the Iwagakure Kinjutsu. --GoDai (talk) 07:48, January 6, 2011 (UTC) ::You know GoDai, you don't have to explain it every time someone asks about it. I'm certain they can read the talk page. Omnibender - Talk - 16:52, January 6, 2011 (UTC) Fire + Lightning Well, I have been thinking about this for a long time, and there are a lot of things I must consider to create this theory: #An explosion is only caused by a great energy release, along with high temperature. The only known elements that could to this are fire or lightning, both energy sources. #It is true lightning could cause an explosion when it strucks the earth. But we have already seen lightning jutsus hitting the ground, and it simply caused a great electric discharge, not really the explosion we know, as it produces heat and gas. So, considering this effect, I think earth couldn't be in this combination, as it couldn't cause the real explosions we saw. And recently, despite being something from the game, the jutsu Coming of the Lightning Fire Phoenix Technique fortified my theory and induced me to write it. It is just what I think and consider. --Rubião December 26, 2011 (UTC) Seperation Would it be a good idea to seperate the known jutsu from Gari already (If there is any) and Deidara's Jutsu? I just think that the Release, combined with a Kinjutsu would be much more different and unique, as it belongs to only those who've obtained the Kinjutsu. I'd think that if you have it in the list of Blast Release//Explosion Release it'd just get things mixed up, as Deidara's jutsu should be singled out or unique to Blast//Explosion Release's :As unique as they are, they are still Explosion Release. Treating them as not would simply be giving false information. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 09:43, February 17, 2011 (UTC) I miss something? I looked on Chapter 526, page 16 (last) to see when Hanzou mentions or sais Deidara posses this kekkei genkai, but there Hanzou dont even shows up nor sais it. Ther is Ginkaku, Kinkaku and Darui speaking. It is a error or I miss something? VolteMetalic (talk) 16:12, May 24, 2011 (UTC) :It's page 13 actually. Thanks for pointing that out~.--Cerez365™ 16:17, May 24, 2011 (UTC) clay consider this, maybe its the clay itself that's classified as earth release, and that's why its vulnerable to lightning, just a theory --Caseather (talk) 03:11, August 18, 2011 (UTC) :That's not really that new of a theory; it has been discussed before. Also, that's what Sasuke said so we actually should go with that until Kishi says otherwise. --GoDai (talk) 03:42, August 18, 2011 (UTC) Earth Release Can't we add that earth release is one of the natures used tomakethism since deidara has earth and explosion release?-- (talk) 20:24, December 21, 2011 (UTC) :It's still speculation. Earth release could very well be what is used to make the clay not the kekkei genkai.--Cerez365™ 20:27, December 21, 2011 (UTC)